Hi,

I would be very much interested to find out a comparison of say PVCS Vs. StarTeam fm Borland. We are currently evaluating a CCM product.

Thanks

Hello,

I cannot resist to add complaints of my own.

1- StarTeam takes locks on files (under Windows at least). So you can't delete a directory containing files checked-out from StarTeam. So if you have stale directories you need to close your StarTeam view, delete the directories and then reopen the view to check-out files if needed. How come is it useful for a source safe to lock files?

2- Merging files between two branches takes ages. You need to open the two branches and browse for your files (you need to do that for every file you merge). And the merging tool sucks (fortunatly you switch to use your own tool... it's one of the greatest StarTeam features). Unless I missed something, I can't imagine how anybody could use it to merge anything without loosing a day...

3- You cannot easily work on "Not in View" files like putting them back in the repository if you just deleted them (you can add them back but you loose the historic) or removing a label from them.

Since it seems my project is stuck with StarTeam forever, I only wish that somebody at Borland will read this blog and become aware of our daily pain.

Hello,

Check CM Crossroads, the configuration management community
Crossroardshttp://www.cmcrossroads.com

I like StartTeam better for these reasons:
1. StarTeam doesnt create folders all over my disk.
It's much more transparent than Subversion.
I can copy an entire directory with starteam and ck it in with no problem. Subversion requires me to manually go out an remove all the .svn directories.

Subversion slows down Eclipse. It takes forever to open a large project (eg Liferay) under subversion.

Starteam doensnt requre an intrusive client like TortoiseCVS which slows down the entire system using directory hooks.

If you've used both systems for real development,
and I have, I don't see how you could like
CVS/Subversion more. I want a version control
system to work for me, not me for it.

Mike,
True, svn does create those .svn files all over the place.. they contain, among other things, a copy of the the checked out version of the file.. so you can revert and diff without having to go across the network. So you take your laptop home and work without needing connectivity to the server all the time. Also, how often are you moving the your parent directory tree around? It isn't something that's done often.

Take a look at the "svn export" command.
http://svnbook.red-bean.com/nightly/en/svn.ref.svn.c.export.html
http://tortoisesvn.net/docs/release/TortoiseSVN_en/help-onepage.html#tsvn-dug-export

Subversion doesn't require Tortoise. There are tons of subversion clients.. pick the one you like!

http://subversion.tigris.org/links.html

Personally, I much prefer the command line.. I've even created command line wrapper around StarTeam's ugly stcmd command, so I'm not "required to the use the intrusive" StarTeam gui client.

Mike, if you've used both systems for real development, and I have, I don't see how you could like StarTeam more. ;)

Rajesh

Hello all,
I did't like SVN for the reason it does't have proper baseline mechanisam. Is there any way i can customise revision numbers by that i could create some sensable name for my baseline ?.

Regards
Raf

Hi,

We have been using TortoiseSVN for a while now and have found it unobtrusive.

However, in reference to the .svn files. Why would you want to delete them? If you merely want to deploy or have a copy then there is the Export command, which leaves out these files.

We even made our own Intranet within the web interface (Trac by Edgwall Software).

Regards

'Ali'

We've just been mandated to switch to corporate starteam... oiy the pain.

We're going from cvs to starteam, we couldn't import all our history, only the latest version of the code, because Borland's cvs import tool is wonky at best.

We dug until we found a plugin for eclipse (starclipse.com) It does about 80% of what you mostly do, and we have to use that gawd-awful Borland client for the rest.

My team has been using it for a little less than a month and they all hate it. I think we're going back to cvs (considering svn) for our day to day work, and placating corporate by checking in implementation releases only. No merges that way, not contention for locks, no network issues.

"No server-side hooks."

That's not true. StarTeam has the MPX feature :)

I have dug up eclipse plugins for StarTeam. I have used the one developed by starclipse.com and ran into a problem with the Revision numbers ($Revision$). It seems as though if I open a file in eclipse it wants to try and update the revision number. In other words, when I go to sync with StarTeam it says hundreds of files have been modified and when I compare their contents the only thing that it (starteam) thinks is modified is the revision number (VERY ANNOYING). I decided to do away with using that plugin, then I found a plugin developed BY borland, hoping this would fix the issue...and it didn't. What am I doing wrong!? Any help will be grateful.

Brandon

has anybody tried Borland Starteam 2006?

What are your first impressions?

Also does Starteam store the actually
source code (or just the metadata) in
the supported databases?
(Explanation - a lot of CM tools commonly
store the source code in RCS like files but
use a database to store the metadata).

Bob Aiello
Editor-in-Chief
CM Crossroads Journal
www.cmcrossroads.com
raiello@acm.org

Hi, Bob.

Yes, I've tried StarTeam 2006. It's a great release.
They have worked on the merge files/views limitations, which is the greatest improvement of this version.
For me it is still the best CM tool I've ever used. I have seen StarTeam repositories with over 2TB of data working, StarTeam servers on multiple computers working together, etc.
Besides the capabilities of customizing your own change request, requirements, tasks and topics workflows.
As of this moment, I wouldn't trade it for any other tool on the market.

Regarding your question, StarTeam only stores the metadata on the supported databases. The files are stored on a hexadecimal-based folder structure, on .tar.gz files. StarTeam is made of 2 parts: the database (with the metadata - including informations of CRs, tasks, topics and requirements, not only files) and the vault. The vault is made of the archives, cache and attachments.

Regards,

Tiago

Starteam = Great Reliability and equally terrible Usability

I have been using and (reluctantly) administering Starteam for the last 2.5 years. Since day 1, my users have been uncomfortable with the tool and we are on the verge of migrating to either Subversion or TFS.

My formula for Software Quality = Reliability + Usability. The reliability of Starteam has been exceptional in the past, but has degraded somewhat with the 2006 edition in my view. Unfortunately, the usability has been average at best to woefully inadequate at worst. With the 2006 client while there are usability improvements, the performance has deteriorated both on the server and client sides.

Bottom line - I do not recommend it for the price you have to pay, especially if you buy into the Ent Adv edition, the creme de le creme edition.

There have been some performance issues with ST2006 especially for large enterprise deployments. Patches have been released to resolve some of the performance problems.
The latest version of StarTeam is now 2008.

Most user related problems I have seen are down to lack of understanding, education or training.

The merge tools where far from perfect in previous versions from ST2006 onwards they are much improved.

Locking policy can be set at the project level. You can decide if you would like optimistic or pessimistic locking. User options include setting it to clear locks on check-in. These have been around for years but it appears a few individuals are not aware.

Can someone pl. explain me concept of Label,Branching,Promotion And demotion in StarTeam 2008? Kindly explain with a diagram / flowchart.
I have been using Starteam 4.1 since 2004. We have neber used the above features. This is totally new for us.

In response to any comments regarding the lack of a Borland community: http://support.borland.com/community/

Eerily straightforward that one...

I've used Rational ClearCase and MS VSS before my company switched to Starteam and I couldn't agree more with Darpan. The usability in this tool stinks. I love the concept of "Highjacked" files in CC and the revision history tree. It's a cool GUI that represents the entire file revision history in one screenshot. You can select any two nodes and compare them on the fly. Merging branches is much easier. We've had to rely on an external tool like BeyondCompare to help us with our merges in Starteam. By the way, you'll love BeyondCompare if you haven't used it already and it's dirt cheap ($30). I
Max.